Walt Mossberg, you are one of my favorite technology reporters, and so I’m particularly disappointed by your article
“Linux’s Free System Is Now Easier to Use, But Not for Everyone“.
My first disappointment is the timing of the article. September 27th Ubuntu will have a beta release of their next version with Ubuntu 7.10 scheduled for release October 18th.
I don’t think you would write an article about the experience of Windows XP a month before Windows Vista, nor Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) now with Leopard… somewhere in our future.
My next disappointment is you leaning on the term user: mainstream, nontechie users; average users; vast majority of computer users; average Ubuntu users, and mainstream, nontechnical users. You used the term 10 times in the article (+1 quoting Dell), and I think excessively.
Couldn’t you just write that you don’t think Linux is ready for most people. Oh, that is pretty much how the title of the article reads, but that message is lost in the article — likely because the article is largely you asking the Linux zealots not to come after you.
To most people I recommend Mac OS X, because I think that’s pragmatic, but I would definitely recommend Ubuntu over Vista to most people, also for pragmatic reasons. I use Vista everyday on a Dell Dimension E520 that it came pre-installed on. It may someday soon be the best Windows yet Walt, but as I told Don Dodge “It will be, but not likely until a couple of service packs from now.”
“People are having variety in their experiences with Windows Vista.” Zipkin, what does that mean?
How is this for a variety in my experience, I tried to delete a small file on the desktop and that was flushing much too long, so I tried to cancel and that hung:
Trying to force that to quit in Task Manager caused Windows to shutdown.
Internet Explorer 7 regularly crashes and unlike Firefox it doesn’t save any of the tabs and windows I had open, nor more importantly any of the content I was editing in those tabs.
On two occasions IE7 has started opening the same window over and over again until I had to shutdown the computer, and I definitely wasn’t on a malware site.
Are the very regular updates requiring reboots making it better? A little I think.
About those updates, who do I have to thank for the experience that has trained me to put the computer to sleep:
and then when there is an update required:
That is a great help in losing work as I quickly go to shutdown the computer when I’m running out the door, or exhausted and off to bed. No warning, just closes all of the applications and shuts down.
Do I have to wait for a first “service pack”? We’ll be waiting a long while yet. “Microsoft finally came clean yesterday and said it will release Windows Vista SP1 in the first quarter of 2008.”1
Notice how no one is claiming any more that Windows is the best operating system. As Windows plays catch up, there is a lot of opportunity for Linux and Mac OS!
Walt, I notice that the problems you describe are all getting Ubuntu setup. That’s the next reason I’m disappointment with the article, though it mimics my own experience with Vista on this Dell computer.
My description of problems with Vista are all ongoing problems, and the problems I have had setting up Vista far exceed the ones I have setting up the current Ubuntu 7.04 or the ones you describe in your article.
The best part of Ubuntu is that once you set it up, you won’t ever have to worry about it again and you will automatically be kept update to date with the latest security and features. In the other hand, setup is Ubuntu’s achilles.
All of the problems you describing having are issues that need to be addressed.
Did you try solving the problems? Are you going to give Ubuntu a real chance and use it for two weeks? (That is what Steve Jobs asked for with the iPhone on screen keyboard, and that was a very minor change compared to a whole OS.) You can at least give it that, or are you going to assume that it will leave you wading through online forums or finding complex workarounds?
You will actually find solutions in plain English to all of your problems and assistance from a diverse and talented community for free.
But it isn’t really free is it? Everything has a cost, to someone.
My last disappointment is with your assertion:
But open source is a two-edged sword. While it draws on smart developers from many places, nobody is ultimately responsible for the quality of the product, and open-source developers often have an imperfect feel for how average people use software. A European company called Canonical is the “commercial sponsor†of Ubuntu and provides support. But it’s largely focused on corporate and techie users. Average Ubuntu users are likely to have to wade through online forums, often written in technical language, to get help.
There are real people ultimately responsible for the quality Ubuntu and many open source products.
Your article unfortunately reinforces the fear that there is no accountability available when choosing open source products. Your research should have found that open source products are often backed by companies that have commercial motivation in the success of the products, and offer equivalent support and customization as any company selling propriety products. ie there is professional quality open source software without the lock in.
The irony is I don’t know any “mainstream, nontechie users” that have ever directly received support from Microsoft, and those people have already paid Microsoft hundreds of dollars for the product.
I think for most people Ubuntu will have a smaller cost than Vista.
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I agree with you Lloyd. Just read the article in my local paper and was extremely disappointed with Mr. Mossberg’s assertions. All one need do is to give it at least 2 weeks to familiarize ones self with the OS’s characteristics.
Because, I, like you, suspect Redmond in this somewhere and the timing just stinks of M/$.
I think as it gets easier and easier and as vista proves itself less and less user firendly, people will adopt OS OS’s in greater numbers.
IBMer, Unfortunately for freedom lovers, I think Microsoft will have learnt from their massive mistake. “Release early, and release often” isn’t just a cute slogan.
I don’t imagine that they will make this mistake again anytime soon, and Microsoft will likely have an offering that will be a better solution for most people.
“Notice how no one is claiming any more that Windows is the best operating system. As Windows plays catch up, there is a lot of opportunity for Linux and Mac OS!”
This is a pretty generalised remark in itself. I wouldnt choose Linux or Apple over windows. Why? Because it does absolutely everything I want it to do. Plus I’m a .NET developer (sort of!). So is it the best? Well yeah, to me it is.
“I think for most people Ubuntu will have a smaller cost than Vista”
But do most people have the time to invest to get it working, find Linux alternatives of all the software they’ve become accustomed to using, train themselves to use it, etc?
Chris, that’s great that you are finding Vista to be the best OS for you. You are correct it is a generalization, but it reflects what people are telling me.
Time to invest? You bring up a great point. The reality is that Vista takes retraining for people familiar with Windows XP. Some of the interactions are quite different and and some of the experience is currently broken in fundamental ways.
This is another reason why smart development teams release early and release often, so the evolving experience is less of a shock.
If we get specific about what people are using their computer for, the reality is many people use a computer for a half dozen specific tasks, more of the tasks are becoming online (any web browser will do), and many people value a few hundred dollars to the tens of hours of retraining possibly required.
For the adventurous like yourself, some of the applications you are already using are the exact same on Linux: Firefox for the web, OpenOffice for word processing, Thunderbird for email, for playing videos and DVDs, and maybe Pidgin for a universal IM client.
My sisters laptop was borked, recently. A result of her downloading everything from everywhere and shattering Windows into tiny bits. Virus, malware, everything was on it. So I decided to install Ubuntu on her computer.
It was easy as pie to install, and easy to download extra tools for her and her Samsung MP3 player worked first time without any need for software. It was fine.
The only problem is that her wireless device was incompatible, so I bought her a compatible one. It still didn’t work. I found out that installing anything that’s not part of the list of Ubuntu get more programmes list is hell. A horrible mess of command lines and stupid user interface stuff.
I think the guys right. It’s not quite ready yet. For the average user, installing anything is horrible! and the system can be far too tech-y, and just due to the amount of windows users, you’re far more likely to find forum help for windows.
So basically, Ubuntu isn’t ready yet, but if it finds a unified app installation method that’s fully GUI and it gets better at wireless, it will be.
Ri, that’s a bummer. I compliment you for trying! I hope you will try again sometime in the future.
How did you solve your sister’s problems? Didn’t you just reset them, and she is back on the same path?
Ri, could you walk me through a scenario where the Ubuntu “get more software” was particularly frustrating? What did you find required you to use the command line?
I’m really surprised you found a compatible wifi one actually wasn’t. I’ve found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport to be accurate, but admittedly tedious to use.
I hope Ubuntu will recommend hardware — but this is an area that open source products have a hard time, because of fear of becoming partisan.
The exciting thing about vendors like Dell shipping Ubuntu is the hardware shipped should work out of the box.
I’m quite disappointed with Dell shipped to Walt hardware that wasn’t working well. I hope they are working with Ubuntu to correct this.
Arun, I will definitely give that article you link a read, but I also think a lot of people don’t appreciate how agile they are and that Windows isn’t a big part of them solving their problems.
I haven’t met a person who hasn’t been happy with switching to a Mac from Windows.
Now, I’m not comparing Ubuntu to Mac, but suggesting how adaptable to change — it will make you live longer
Nice article. I think that people also tend to forget that Linux is not Windows.
I like your comparison of Ubuntu support against Windows support. Most people don’t understand that even though they may have paid $400 for Vista, phone support was not included. Luckily OEMs pick up the tab on this, but they also do so when they sell pre-installed Linux systems.
It’s not fair for Ubuntu but nontechnical users treat Windows XP and Windows Vista as different products and Ubuntu upgrades like a service pack.
I would agree that the examples that Mossberg listed on occasions Ubuntu didn’t work well for him are really bad.
Most people buy Windows Vista because they are used to using Windows already. That’s perfectly fine since they’re willing to pay for something that’s familiar. Everytime a friend comes to me to ask on OS opinion, I just ask them if they’re adventurous enough to venture into another OS or prefer to stick with the current one.
Regarding support, you kinda missed out the point that most people just ask their friends and don’t use official support. This gives Windows a huge advantage.
The few people I have spoke to actually like the fact that Windows Vista forces them to restart the computer for updates. I think it has some sort of psychological effect that Vista is really serious about your security and is going to help you increase your performance and secure your system. Restarts somehow boost their confidence in Vista as the patch must be a great holy patch that’s important.
Okay, yes I’m a Vista user mainly. I use Ubuntu about 30% of my time. My biggest problem is just that Ubuntu lacks Adobe Flash and Photoshop which is crucial for my work.
Hi Mr. Dew,
Walt Mossberg is a very technically savvy person, and knowing a product’s release cycle is an essential part of evaluating a product.
I agree that there is likely a perspective issue with Ubuntu releases and a marketing opportunity, but I imagine that Ubuntu is waiting like Walt until ready for the first world market.
Most people don’t actually buy Vista. It comes with their computer.
I agree that most people ask their tech savvy friends, and I agree that gives Windows an advantage, but probably every city in the world has a friendly, supportive Linux community and one of your friends is probably (secretively) part of it.
Microsoft is really smart about their gaming position. Many young tech savvy people play games. Windows is the PC gaming platform and Xbox reinforces that.
Walt’s conclusion is the right one, but the article isn’t successful at supporting that conclusion.
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Linux works great for the average person, I think. If all you’re going to do is e-mail, surf, and play Solitaire, it’s great. But if you have any special hardware needs, not so much.
I’m current using Ubuntu myself. I was just curious about how the other half (users of non-RPM-based distros) lived, so I tried it. The one thing that angers me is that I can’t get my printer to work. That’s bothersome, since my college papers have to be printed out, so I always have to use another computer to do the actual printing. In Mandriva, all I had to do was install the driver, add the printer in CUPS, and start printing. In Ubuntu, I can’t get it to work at all, not even after getting support. I’m just hoping that the WINE GSoC project to get Windows drivers to work was a success.
With that said, Windows is still an even bigger nuisance. I can hardly ever use any Windows program without getting “(Not Responding)” suffixed in the title bar.
And to Mr. Dew, less Flash on the Internet certainly wouldn’t be a bad thing.
I followed Matt’s link here because I have installed and used Umbuntu on a few client laptops.
I completely agree with Ri on one statement.
“So basically, Ubuntu isn’t ready yet, but if it finds a unified app installation method that’s fully GUI and it gets better at wireless, it will be.”
Ubuntu and MacOS X both run on the Debian flavor of Unix/Linux. I personally am a Mac fan from WAYYYY back. (1984)
I can only point to the lack of hardware specific drivers for common components (wireless cards, modems, BlueTooth devices, etc) and the complete lack of a unified GUI installation application on the Ubuntu platform to seriously recommend Ubuntu to anyone for everyday use.
I have seen a variety of Hacks/cracks/codes available however to install MacOS X on previously Windows OSed computers. None of those however are legal, and again I can not recommend them to clients or even to friends.
MacOS X has done what Ubuntu has not, in making drivers and a single GUI package installation application available, and that is, making Linux available to the market.
For all the Linux Techies out there… please… Make a single GUI Installation Application available … no sudu-make-grep-pel-gline-kilne-rumproast-whackamole-postfix-gre … Point, Click, Install…
After that… we can work on new drivers for wireless cards/modem/mice/keyboards/etc…
Hi Paul, I’m not sure what you mean by “MacOS X runs on the Debian flavor of Unix/Linux”. MacOS X is built on a non-GNU foundation of the micro kernel Darwin that includes many portions of FreeBSD.
I don’t understand what you mean by unified GUI installation application? Can you walk me through software you had to install on Ubuntu and what was awkward about it?
Comparing Mac OS X’s hardware support to Ubuntu isn’t an accurate comparison. Ubuntu actually supports orders of magnitudes more hardware, but only with vendors/retailers like Dell with this be delivered in a nice package.
I’m currently running Vista and Ubuntu on my laptop and have been for a few months, but I still have to say I prefer Vista. I’ve heard lots of stories about how people have so many problems with it, but in my experience, I’ve encountered no more problems than I did using XP, Ubuntu, or even OS X. Every OS will give you problems, especially when you’re not as used to it as you are with another (which is why OS X gives me more grief than any version of Windows).
However, I do disagree with Mossberg that non-technical users should stay away from Ubuntu. The latest version of Ubuntu is the most user-friendly version I’ve ever used, and I’ve tinkered with Ubuntu dating back to 5.04 (that version gave me lots of problems). The setup is very easy, given that you’re able to comprehend instructions and the OS comes pre-installed with nearly all applications people generally expect out of an OS (Internet browser, word processor, music player, etc.). I’d say it’s the best distro of Linux for the average computer user who knows little about partitions and mounts and whatnot. My main concern with Linux is the reliance on the terminal for certain tasks, but I do believe it’s possible to use Ubuntu without going to the terminal at all, which would be a big benefit to people with no knowledge of using terminals or command prompts.
Cody, I’m happy to hear that Vista is working well for you. For me, it is the buggiest OS I’ve used since Windows ME, and I’ve used every version of each of these three OS’ since that time.
That’s a very well written reply to the half-researched review by Walt on Ubuntu.
Whenever reviewing a GNU/Linux distribution, non-technical reviewers always stress on the point how similar/different it is to Windows. My estimation is that even the most non-technical person will start appreciating the positive experience of using Ubuntu within the first two weeks(the first 3-4 days of which should leave him frustrated though). The initial learning curve should be considered as an investment to reap the benefits later. Learning to use proper communication channels like public forums, mailing-lists, irc etc is essential in today’s software world and people coming from Windows background just don’t know how to use them.
Walt complains that codecs/additional software has to be installed to play media on Ubuntu(which takes just a single click) but I wonder how that is different from having to install codecs/additional software on Windows to play DVDs or other video formats like DivX,H.264 etc. This is after paying hundreds of dollars to buy Windows!
I believe Red Hat, Novell and Canonical feel more responsibility about the users’ experience of their products than Microsoft or Apple do. Novell committed one mistake with their 10.1 release and just one version of Ubuntu ever got delayed. We got apologies from both. Microsoft products keep getting delayed playing with the plans of its regular customers and even the late release has plenty of bugs which are fixed in good deal of time. No apologies from Microsoft(Apple is slightly better in this department).
you people are smoking dust. you’ll be waiting 20 years, if you’re lucky, for linux to be adopted over microsoft on the desktop. my company is running linux on its servers but everybody still runs 2000/xp and office/outlook on their desktops. the only option for the average joe is windows or mac and macs are too expensive. too may linux versions are out there to make a difference. do you think my grandma cares about suse vs. redhat vs. ubuntu or whether she likes kde vs. gnome or one package manager over another? yeah right. windows isn’t going away anytime soon.
You might be surprised Sam Adams. More and more people are making the move to Linux as they’ve become tired of all the same old, same old from Gate$ and company. All the viruses. constant “late” patches, the bloat-ware, and on and on…
It’s not that difficult to learn and with the lack of any serious threat’s to it’s OS, it’s very likely to wind up with it’s share of the market so to speak, much sooner than your 20 year forecast. I’d be willing to bet on that.
Hi
Excellent article and a good response.
Firstly, I am a Mac user and will continue to be. It isn’t just about the software but they do make beautiful computers! Have a look at the number of tv programmes and films that use macs. Even Viking (a stationery seller in the uk) advertise their products using Macs. They don’t even sell them.
Secondly, Ubuntu. I hear people complain about drivers etc. What is these folks that complain about the drivers put the $400 or £400 that they would pay to MS into supporting the creation of these drivers. Do I complain about free? No I try to support and do something about it. The other thing is I often wonder what the stats are – comparing those that complain to those that don’t. The ones that loaded Ubuntu and it worked fine. The ones that complain will often make the most noise!
And finally, I support Windows users in a small town of 2500 people. The biggest problem – virus. The second biggest problem installation of hardware. The third biggest problem the installation of software. Hang-on installation of hardware, isn’t that what people complain about when they install Ubuntu. I don’t really get this. I have users who can’t install hardware and software on windows so they ask me to help. Why can’t the folks who install Ubuntu just do the same?
Rich
Well… A very informative one.. Im still an XP user now… But gonna assemble a new PC soon… Just wanted to know what would be most ideal OS for me… MacOS or Vista or Ubuntu… I hav heard of all those free ubuntu cd’s being given out to whomever wants it.. If they r giving it for free, does that mean tht it isnt upto the mark?? And i have also heard that Mac Os is not that efficient like those OS tht Windows launches… Atleast in our part of the World, MacOs isnt that famous.. Kindly explain…
Vijay, well if you are assembling a computer than you probably can’t get Mac OS X on it, because my guess it is only licensed to run on Apple hardware.
XP is pretty good.
It really depends on what you want to do on the computer, and how and what you want to invest in that experience. If you only want to invest money and you have experience with XP and your immediate needs outweigh your future needs than still with XP.
Otherwise, it costs you nothing to give Ubuntu a try. Might as well wait until next month’s release of the new version.
Thnx for tht information lloyd… Well.. What about Vista??
Vijay, as I say above, Vista isn’t ready yet. It is more pain than pleasure at this point.
I would not recommend any of the “buntus” to a newbie. I just wiped Feisty Fawn after a month of using it because it did nothing but freeze, the desktop and FireFox crashes, there are a bunch of memory leaks and there are major security holes with four in the kernel alone that might be fixed in Gutsy Gibbon When it is released next month. But, Walt,You shouldn’t be so quick to judge Linux when there are much better distros than Ubuntu like, Debian 4.0 (etch) PCLinuxOS OpenSUSE Puppy Mepis 7.0 Fedora.I use all of theses and not had any problems.
the reason people knock windows is because they are a) the leaders in the field and people allways attack the leaders or b) the dislike bill gates
i think windows is the best os to use, but i must admit i dont like vista and am quite happy using xp
having used a mac for video editing i can definetly say i prefer xp, and as for linux thats something most casual users are not even aware exists!
In reply to “the subconscious mindâ€, the reason people “knock” Windows is often because they perceive it as an inferior product, or they are upset that Bill Gates led Microsoft to be a convicted monopolist, and a company that has slowed innovation by stifling competition.
Oh..k.. Thanks for that piece of information… I really am liking this blog.. Gr8 info being provided…
@ debianchick: maybe a bad install? I’ve had no trouble at all with my installation so far and am quite pleased with it.
But he has a point. Walt Mossberg writes to the mainstream. Many people would be like “UbuWhat?” I think that Ubuntu is great because all the software is upgraded and installed in one place. The .deb packages are just as easy to use as .exe installers, but the places Ubuntu falters is drivers, mainstream software, and installing software that is not in the repositories. If a person is not comfortable in the terminal, they won’t like Ubuntu at all.
Shantanu, what do you need the terminal for that you don’t need in another operating system?
As I wrote, I don’t disagree with Walt’s conclusion, I disagree with his article.
@debianchick, do you have bug numbers or additional details?
Your long list of distros that are good, illustrates our disconnect from most people that can only consider a few brands in a product space.
The control Microsoft has on the market, never sease to amaze me. One would think that firefox and other great open source web tools would convince more people to look for alternatives to the old ways. We live in a great era, technologicly speaking, and I for one am excited with any advancement (such as Ubuntu). I promote in my website building computers and feel joy with every chance to enrich my knowledge.
Thanks Lloyd for a great article,
Ron
I’m new to Linux. I’ve had my hand held by Windows since 3.1. I bought a new laptop before moving back to Korea. It came with Vista pre-installed. I don’t despise Vista the way I thought I would. But I certainly don’t like it either. The computer has 2 GB of RAM. I can’t imagine running on less than 1. Someone asked me a few weeks ago about buying a Vista laptop with 512 MB of RAM. I told her my best advice was to not do it or plan on buying more RAM.
I started out a few months ago with Ubuntu (dual booting). Many things just worked. Wireless didn’t. But it wasn’t a huge deal because it didn’t work in Vista either (although that magically started working again one day).
I had trouble finding a music player in the repository that would play both mp3 and m4a files *and* read a FAT32 partition. A friend (and Linux guru) was kind enough to teach me how to build mplayer from source. It was easy once I actually got the compiler installed.
I recently set up the machine to triple boot Ubuntu, Fedora 7 (running KDE) and Vista. I’m finding I like Fedora the best. I’ve learned quite a bit (and still know very little) about how things work under the hood. I’ve tamed Grub. I’ve gotten Firefox and Java to play nice together. I’ve even written my first shell scripts.
Could I have done it on my own? Maybe. I was lucky enough to have my friend to guide me. He helped me solve problems that may have been over my head. He’s been nice enough to answer every question I’ve had in a patient and kind way. But he also made me learn what I was doing and why I was doing it. I’m thinking about making a 100% switch over. At the moment, there’s nothing I do in Windows that I can’t do in Linux. And I like the sense of control that I have.
Just 20 Won from a newbie (who’s also wonder when I get to graduate to whatever comes after newbie).
Kathryn, I really enjoyed you sharing your experience with me!
100% switch, awesome!
VMWare Server is a free product that will let you know use Windows from within your Linux, if there is one or a few hold out apps you still need.
What about Fedora differentiated itself from Ubuntu for you? Did it come down to that is what your friends use?
I’m not sure if Fedora vs Ubuntu is fair comparison for me to make because Ubuntu uses Gnome and I’m using KDE in Fedora.
That said, I never really figured out how to properly use apt-get (or whatever it’s called) in Ubuntu. But yum was easy enough. The other thing was Fedora was able to recognize my native monitor resolution out of the box (it’s a wide screen laptop) but Ubuntu was not. So everything looked really crappy.
What has helped me the most is that my friend uses mostly Fedora (as does my brother). He’s only started using Ubuntu on one of the cluster computers where he works (he works for the LIGO project).
Part of my paying him back for the time he’s spent is looking at install (and eventually build) instructions for some software we both use (that’s how I met him in the first place). He is trying to make them (especially the install instructions) as newbie friendly as possible. He’s made a few changes based on my experiences with Fedora. And I need to boot into Ubuntu one of these days and do the install again to make sure everything works properly in a Debian based distro.
I think the commenters hit on two weaknesses of Linux:
1. People need and love certain programs like Photoshop and Dreamweaver;
2. Drivers failing.
One way to outsmart MS would be to offer cheap computers with Linux installed, or maybe rent them out; give them a taste. It’s hard to knock a company as dominant as MS off its perch.
And we can see Steve Jobs is _still_ trying to dictate how people use his products. Some people never learn.
So basically I can send this post to a friend who really likes Linux. I used Windows all the time but put the classic look on my XP. Not sure if OS is better for the average user. Never really got the hang of it when I tried.
I think a lot the reluctance that I encounter comes from the fact that people don’t want to learn a completely new OS. It is true that moving to Vista requires some learning. But for and XP users the leap is not that great. When you leap from XP to Ubuntu the learning gap is wide deep. So regardless of how worthy the leap may be, most people are just not going to step off of Windows.
I’m reasonably technically minded and still Ubuntu isn’t working perfectly for me.
I still have to close down applications with sound so I can hear sound on another application.
I have to download youtube videos because the flash plugins don’t work properly in firefox (with sound).
I’m sticking with Ubuntu because its way easier for development and backup purposes.
Vista has treated me well. I love the searching features. it is the new Outlook 2007 that bogs down my system.
I aggree with that, Ubuntu is alot harder to use than XP or vista, but with a little time most people could use it (they should use the package installer e.t.c)
i just got a linux laptop, and it runs great, i’m very impressed by it. But its almost like i want to recomend it to 2 types of people, really basic users, who i can set up with 3 applications they are going to use, and theyll be happy, or really advanced users who can deal with the issues they are going to run into.
Ed, that is an interesting way to put it. It meets the needs of the two extrema groups. My own experience, supported by design literature, suggests the largest group by far is the people who are comfortable using intermediate features, and that people quickly move from basic experience and seldom become experts.