Comments on: Call It Senate or Seanad, But Don’t Call It Democracy

By: Alan of funnymos.com

Alan of funnymos.com — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 06:35:48 +0000

I’ll take an unpopular unelected leader that does a good job anytime over a government elected by the people but made of freaking thieves like here in my country.

By: Angie of suncoastscribe.com

Angie of suncoastscribe.com — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:12:14 +0000

I agree with Trent. The concept is about election by the people and supposedly those you elect will do your bidding. It’s not so much a per capita issue. We have the same thing in our Senate here [in the USA] and it does seem out of balance at times, though.

By: Morgan

Morgan — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 21:28:27 +0000

Of course the blog entry about me running for the Senate from PEI is a joke (as evidenced by the April fools day publishing date).

But it does bring up a serious issue and thanks for highlighting it Lloyd. There is no question that PEI deserves a special place in confederation. But given that Vancouver Island was also an independent colony until 1866 and entered confederation just two years before PEI joined, it too deserves a special place in confederation… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_of_Vancouver_Island

Australia’s senate is of course a very bad comparison to Canada’s Senate. For one, the Australian House is actually made up of constituencies that are approximately equal in population size to each other, meaning that any voter has equal weight to any other voter no matter where they live. And the Australian Senate of course is an elected body and always has been. (Although the state/provincial upper houses now abolished where they once existed (ie. Ontario) in Canada were not always elected in Australia (ie. State of Victoria)).

Above a commentator argues that BC get’s 10 senate seats. Of course this is completely incorrect although Nova Scotia and New Brunswick do each have 10 senators. BC gets only two more than PEI-6. 6 Senators with a population of 4 million versus 4 Senators for a population of 138,000 in PEI. That’s 34,000 people per Senator in PEI and 651,000 people per senator in British Columbia!!

Maybe, I could accept a senate that allowed equal representation from each province and territory, had greatly reduced powers and was democratically elected. But I still think we should do like Ontario and abolish the damn thing.

I finish by asking this simple question and it isn’t about the Senate.

Why should my vote, both my parent’s votes and my one remaining grandparent’s vote (all of us residents of Vancouver Island) be worth less than the vote of a single peer of mine on PEI..
-on an election conducted on the same day,
-on islands that entered confederation one year apart,
-in the same country,
-for the same position,
-for the same pay, and
-to do way less work (ie. represent way less people in a way smaller area)?

By: Trent

Trent — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 15:46:42 +0000

Democracy is not the same thing as representation by population. Democracy is the right for people to vote for their leaders in a positive role in shaping their future. Representation by population is just a spin on applying democracy by allocating these votes based on population, geography and other external factors.

The senate is the check of this rep by pop system and was put in the constitution to make sure that there is no “tyranny of the masses”, a common occurance in democracy countries today across the world including Canada. Majority rule without checks usually lead to breakups, hard feelings and monopolies.

The fact that senators are not elected is a joke and we should have the “EEE” senate that Alberta itself pushes for on a constant basis. That is the amazing part of politics, there is never a system to make everyone happy. If there was, we would have nothing to talk about.

By: Mike Grouchy

Mike Grouchy — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:13:21 +0000

Lloyd, I think that quote (the one about Vancouver Island) is misrepresentative of the facts or it is at least skewing them. The reason why PEI has that many seats is because it is a province and as a province it gets 1 seat in the house of commons for population and because of its small population gets 3 seats due to special provisions. Where as BC gets 36 seats in the house of commons + 10 senators. The clauses in effect that give PEI those 3 extra seats are in effect to protect Provinces with a small population like PEI and “As a result of these three clauses, smaller provinces and provinces that have experienced a relative decline in population are over-represented in the House. Only Ontario, British Columbia, and Alberta â€” Canada’s fastest-growing provinces â€” are represented roughly in proportion to their populations. Provincial boundary commissions are responsible for drawing the boundaries of the electoral districts.”
So really I think this is actually democracy working to make sure our smaller provinces are getting some representation and don’t get abused in the house of commons(which has been known to happen in the past before these clauses were put in effect). Comparing Vancouver Island, which isn’t a province, to PEI which is a province is like comparing apples and oranges, to make a valid comparison, you would be comparing BC and PEI. If Vancouver islanders feel like they have a problem with not enough seats in the house of commons, its not a failure in democracy its a failure with the provincial boundary commisions.

By: Lloyd

Lloyd — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:05:37 +0000

Markk, that is very interesting, and not surprising as I imagine all of these democratic systems have the same origin — awkwardly grafted on to a nobility class lead system.

Ironic, although our system has the promise of a better system, the results so far have not been that much different.