I knew Canada had a bad joke of democracy when it comes to our senate being unelected and unrepresentative.
Prince Edward Island, Canada’s 23rd largest island and 7th most populous, but the only one that is a province unto itself, has a population of 138,632 residents and has 8 federal representatives — 4 seats in the House of Commons and 4 more in the Senate. Vancouver Island has a population of over 700,000 people, is Canada’s 11th largest island, has the second highest population behind the Island of Montreal and has no representatives in the Senate. With a population more than 5 times that of PEI, Vancouver Island gets 6 representatives in the House of Commons. If Vancouver Islanders had the same level of representation as Prince Edward Islanders based on population they would have at least 20 Members of Parliament and 20 Senators.1
But it is disheartening to hear that other countries have an equally hard time with what you would think would be a long ago implemented system, democracy.
The Government of Ireland is split into two houses. The first House is the Dail where politicians make important and not so important decisions and talk endlessly on matters of State. The second House is the Seanad. This is a little known and secretive group of people who are elected in a complicated election by a small subset of the Irish public.2
- Morgan Stewart, Morgan Stewart announces candidacy for Prince Edward Island Senate seat [↩]
- Donncha O Caoimh, So what is the Seanad for anyway? [↩]
it is very wrong, it totally miss the idea of democracy. i think they should go on strike and try to fix this
Same thing here in Australia – Tasmania, with 400,000 people, has the same number of senators as New South Wales, which has over 6 million.
I think the official rationale behind this is to keep the populous power centres from running roughshod over the lesser regions.
Arguably it would be prudent to abolish the senate and have only one house of parliament. It would certainly save a lot of time and money.
Markk, that is very interesting, and not surprising as I imagine all of these democratic systems have the same origin — awkwardly grafted on to a nobility class lead system.
Ironic, although our system has the promise of a better system, the results so far have not been that much different.
Lloyd, I think that quote (the one about Vancouver Island) is misrepresentative of the facts or it is at least skewing them. The reason why PEI has that many seats is because it is a province and as a province it gets 1 seat in the house of commons for population and because of its small population gets 3 seats due to special provisions. Where as BC gets 36 seats in the house of commons + 10 senators. The clauses in effect that give PEI those 3 extra seats are in effect to protect Provinces with a small population like PEI and “As a result of these three clauses, smaller provinces and provinces that have experienced a relative decline in population are over-represented in the House. Only Ontario, British Columbia, and Alberta — Canada’s fastest-growing provinces — are represented roughly in proportion to their populations. Provincial boundary commissions are responsible for drawing the boundaries of the electoral districts.”
So really I think this is actually democracy working to make sure our smaller provinces are getting some representation and don’t get abused in the house of commons(which has been known to happen in the past before these clauses were put in effect). Comparing Vancouver Island, which isn’t a province, to PEI which is a province is like comparing apples and oranges, to make a valid comparison, you would be comparing BC and PEI. If Vancouver islanders feel like they have a problem with not enough seats in the house of commons, its not a failure in democracy its a failure with the provincial boundary commisions.
Democracy is not the same thing as representation by population. Democracy is the right for people to vote for their leaders in a positive role in shaping their future. Representation by population is just a spin on applying democracy by allocating these votes based on population, geography and other external factors.
The senate is the check of this rep by pop system and was put in the constitution to make sure that there is no “tyranny of the masses”, a common occurance in democracy countries today across the world including Canada. Majority rule without checks usually lead to breakups, hard feelings and monopolies.
The fact that senators are not elected is a joke and we should have the “EEE” senate that Alberta itself pushes for on a constant basis. That is the amazing part of politics, there is never a system to make everyone happy. If there was, we would have nothing to talk about.
Of course the blog entry about me running for the Senate from PEI is a joke (as evidenced by the April fools day publishing date).
But it does bring up a serious issue and thanks for highlighting it Lloyd. There is no question that PEI deserves a special place in confederation. But given that Vancouver Island was also an independent colony until 1866 and entered confederation just two years before PEI joined, it too deserves a special place in confederation… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_of_Vancouver_Island
Australia’s senate is of course a very bad comparison to Canada’s Senate. For one, the Australian House is actually made up of constituencies that are approximately equal in population size to each other, meaning that any voter has equal weight to any other voter no matter where they live. And the Australian Senate of course is an elected body and always has been. (Although the state/provincial upper houses now abolished where they once existed (ie. Ontario) in Canada were not always elected in Australia (ie. State of Victoria)).
Above a commentator argues that BC get’s 10 senate seats. Of course this is completely incorrect although Nova Scotia and New Brunswick do each have 10 senators. BC gets only two more than PEI-6. 6 Senators with a population of 4 million versus 4 Senators for a population of 138,000 in PEI. That’s 34,000 people per Senator in PEI and 651,000 people per senator in British Columbia!!
Maybe, I could accept a senate that allowed equal representation from each province and territory, had greatly reduced powers and was democratically elected. But I still think we should do like Ontario and abolish the damn thing.
I finish by asking this simple question and it isn’t about the Senate.
Why should my vote, both my parent’s votes and my one remaining grandparent’s vote (all of us residents of Vancouver Island) be worth less than the vote of a single peer of mine on PEI..
-on an election conducted on the same day,
-on islands that entered confederation one year apart,
-in the same country,
-for the same position,
-for the same pay, and
-to do way less work (ie. represent way less people in a way smaller area)?
I agree with Trent. The concept is about election by the people and supposedly those you elect will do your bidding. It’s not so much a per capita issue. We have the same thing in our Senate here [in the USA] and it does seem out of balance at times, though.
I’ll take an unpopular unelected leader that does a good job anytime over a government elected by the people but made of freaking thieves like here in my country.